Part 2: Avoiding Freelance Nightmares - Discovery Calls and Red Flags

Welcome back to Part Two of our Series on “How to get started as a freelancer”. In this episode we go all in on RED flags, how to spot scams from a miles away without getting burnt and simple tools to give you the extra edge.

TLDR:
☕How to spot red flags from potential clients before starting a discovery call. Don't let desperation lead you to nightmare clients! 🚩
☕ The best free tools to professionally book discovery calls because first impressions do make a difference
☕ Why saying ‘No’ to score creep will result in your business growth
☕ Key questions to ask potential clients, including their conversion rate and ideal audience
☕ Molly’s big red flag lesson 

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Transcript

LaTara: [00:00:00] 

LaTara: Hey everyone. Welcome back to part two of the series. How to get started as a freelancer. With myself, Molly Block, and the beautiful LaTara Dunn. And we are going to discuss today the red flags to look for, scams, and discovery calls. Awesome,

LaTara: We're super excited to have you here today. We hope that you enjoyed part one of our three part series. It was fabulous, we talked about so many things. where to start, what to do if you need a portfolio, a website, how to market yourself, what to do on social media what you want to charge.

LaTara: It was great. so we definitely want to dive deep today in regards to discovery calls, what to do, how to get those calls, things that you should look out for. Collecting payment, having a contract, all that tools that we like to use for that process as well. And then in our third part, we're going to be talking about the actual onboarding.

LaTara: So after they've paid you, they've submitted a contract and whatnot. So we hope that you [00:01:00] come back for part three. Okay, so let's start off with red flags. Molly and I are always paying attention to red flags, and let me first start off by saying red flags is like a little juicy word, that everyone says right along with burnt out, which we'll talk about that later as well when everyone's like, I hear the word burnt out all the time, what does it actually mean?

LaTara: So don't worry, after this series, we'll dive deep into that, but, Let's talk about red flags. These are super important and I know as soon as I say the word red flag You're picturing the cute little red emoji and I want you to keep picturing that and so when you hear this potential client say something or write you something or you read it on social media I want that little red emoji to pop in front of your face.

LaTara: And it's really going to help you be able to take a step back. Because when you first get started, you're going to be so excited to take on your first client. And [00:02:00] you're going to want to ignore, you're going to be in denial of these red flags. I definitely was, and I know Molly was too. And so, we want to give you a couple tips to look out for.

Molly: So... 

LaTara: Your first handful of clients aren't all dumpster fires, you're gonna have a client that you're not gonna work well with, they're not gonna like you, you're not gonna like them, you're not gonna be able to communicate, it's life, it's just like when you have a job, right, you're at a job and you realize it's not for you, and Clients aren't gonna be for you either and that's okay But we want to help lessen the pain.

LaTara: So so let's say You know, you have found someone in a Facebook group or something and you're like, okay this person looks cool to work for Let's talk about the red flags to look for before you get that discovery call. So, Molly, why don't you share about that for a little bit, and then I'll share about the red flags that happen inside the discovery call.

Molly: Sure. [00:03:00] So, when you're first starting, you just want to get clients, right? I know. I was guilty of it. I ignored so many red flags when I first started because... I just wanted to start, I was so eager, I was so excited, and I ignored things. I ignored things that now that I'm a little more seasoned, that I've done, plenty of discovery calls and had plenty of clients, now I look back on it and I'm like, ah, that, that was definitely a red flag So, I know in the beginning here, I mentioned red flags and scams, and I think when you're first starting, those kind of correlate together. They're the same thing and something that I've noticed just from fellow VAs or from looking at Facebook groups or Upwork or different platforms, that you can promote yourself A big one that's going out now is, if anyone ever asks [00:04:00] you to send them a deposit, that's a scam.

Molly: That should be a red flag there. No one should ever ask you to be sending them money. If somebody is asking you to post on your personal account, Always, that's always a scam red flag right there. Never legit. It's always somebody trying to take advantage of you. Let me backtrack a little bit.

Molly: I would say 98% of the time, there are some legit companies out there. Let me retract that statement, right. There are some legit ones, some legit real estate businesses or. Different companies who do promote that stuff in a legit way. Most of the time, it's a scam, and I've seen it.

Molly: I know when I first started, I applied to jobs like that. I thankfully saw the red flags, because I was like, these are too big for me to not notice. 

LaTara: Oh [00:05:00] yeah, it happened to me before, Molly, when I first started out. Really? Yeah. I had forgotten about this until you said the real estate thing.

LaTara: I was in a Facebook group and I was, promoting my services and someone sent me a DM and I was still very new and, I was excited to get clients. remember I told you I started out with social media so I wasn't totally sure what kind of client I wanted to work with yet.

LaTara: And this guy reached out to me And I had already made the decision that I wasn't going to work with any men, but he still, like, reached out to me first and was saying that, he would pay me. 200 a week if I would post the certain properties that he had listed on Craigslist. Okay, no. Great night for him.

LaTara: And I was like no. And he's like, and I will not pay you until the end of the month. I, even though I say I'm going to pay you 200 every week, I'm not going to [00:06:00] pay you for four weeks. And I was like, no, that's not happening. And I emailed him back and I was like, yeah, no, I need to be paid up front. And then he started going all crazy on me and was lecturing me for saying that I didn't trust his word.

LaTara: And usually they're going to get really hostile when you call them. out, right? And they're like, wha how come you don't trust what I'm saying or whatever? And usually the defensive tone that you can hear literally coming through the emails or the messages is a 100% sign that this doesn't that this isn't right.

Molly: Exactly. Exactly. Because I've had discovery calls before or even like introduction emails, like you said, or direct messages, and right off the bat, I'm like, eh, this isn't for me. Nobody ever got hostile or mean with me unless it was a scam, unless it was posting [00:07:00] properties or cold calling, which again, not every cold calling is a scam.

Molly: Please do not take that. It's not every one. But message is a big one that I've noticed and I think is easy to miss, especially when you're so eager. is when people message you and they can't spell correctly. 

LaTara: Yeah, that's a good, that's a really good one to pay 

Molly: attention to. If you get a direct message or an email or maybe you have a form on your website, if you made one people can inquire with you.

Molly: if their sentences don't make sense and don't use proper grammar, most of the time... It's a scam. And I'm not the best speller out there, but Because I write a lot of stuff, just like you, Latara, and I always try to look at my grammar, and when I would read these messages, I'm like this doesn't read [00:08:00] well at all.

Molly: Right. And there were a few times I did keep the conversation going, because I was so new, and I was so eager, I just was like, Well, maybe they need me to help them show them proper 

LaTara: grammar. Right, You're like, God, I feel like I could help these people, 

Molly: But... I I could totally use my services.

Molly: Then the conversation keeps going, and then it turns out I'll send you money to buy a laptop and a phone, or you're gonna post personally on this, or... And those are The scams. Those are scams and red flags. And again, when we first started, were so eager, like LaTara and I said, that we fell for a lot of different things.

Molly: Sometimes, we caught on. Sometimes maybe it took a little bit for us to catch on. But, if this has ever happened to you, don't feel bad. Because you're just trying to start your business. You're just excited to begin and to jump in, and someone's [00:09:00] giving you an opportunity. And you'll never feel bad.

Molly: You don't have to feel ashamed if this happened to you. It's happened to the best of us. It really has. 

LaTara: Exactly. and that's why we want to talk you through the steps on how to have a good little process to go through when you're just starting out to help. weave these red flags out.

LaTara: so, you're billing this person. So, this person should never have your bank information. They should never say, okay, I'm going to enter you into my HR director. Nothing like that. You're always going to be collecting payments from them, right? So, that's a good one right there. And then, also.

LaTara: You need to be researching this person. So before I have a discovery call with someone, I'm googling the crap out of them. And I am looking up their website. I am going through their social media. I am seeing how frequently they post. I'm seeing how long ago they posted. 

LaTara: I'm seeing, how legitimate they [00:10:00] are. And that's another way to decide if they can afford your services. if you can 

LaTara: tell that they don't have anything like connected properly. They don't have anything set up. They haven't posted on social media for two years. they're not going to be the right client for you. They're not. They're really not ready to work with somebody because they just don't know what they're doing, right?

LaTara: So, next we want to talk about red flags in that discovery call. a discovery call, if you're not sure what that term means, I don't want to call it an interview, but it's like you're interviewing them to see if you want to work with them.

LaTara: It's not them seeing if they want to work with you, it's you. Seeing if you want to work with them and you need to remember that like this call, you control this call, you decide how it's going to go, you decide what's going to be talked about and you decide how long it's going to be and I always allow 30 minutes for my discovery calls and you can have them any way that you like.

LaTara: Most people have them on Zoom, right? And you can have a free Zoom account for up to 40 [00:11:00] minutes. So, if your discovery call is 30 minutes, you have a nice little 10 minute buffer window before Zoom is going to start telling you that it's going to end your call on you. 

Molly: That's a good thing right there.

LaTara: So, and if you know you talk a lot, maybe schedule your discovery call for 20 minutes so you have a little bit of extra time before they see that timer. Because you also want to be professional, right? But you're just starting out. You don't have any money right now. after we get that call scheduled I asked them questions, before we even get on that call.

Marker - does this part need to move up?

LaTara: So, I've already researched them. I already know if they're legitimate, right? And we have shared a calendar link and Molly, before we talk about the red flags and the call, why don't you talk about a cool tool that's free to use on how they can Schedule the calls without a bunch of, back and forth ness.

LaTara: Like, which ones do you recommend? 

Molly: Oh, this is a good one. So scheduling tools, there are a few out there [00:12:00] that, you can use for free. Especially since we're just starting out. We don't got any money to be spending on any of these things. The one that I gravitated to, I still use it sometimes.

Molly: Because one, it's user friendly for myself and it's user friendly for my potential client is Calendly. I thought when I first started, I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so professional. Look at me. I have this little calendar. It's free. It's free. And all you do is go in and just edit your availability.

Molly: Again, you're in control. You add when you're willing or available to do discovery calls, you put the time of the calls in And I know I felt so much more confident doing that, that way instead of Just sending emails and then saying, Oh, I'll send you my zoom link, Obviously you still want to connect zoom to Calendly I'm sure there's tons and tons of [00:13:00] other scheduling free platforms Calendly is the one I personally use and the one that I'm Most comfortable with and like I said is easiest for me and the client but yeah, you can just set that up, you send them your link, If you have your logo or your name, you can put that at the end of it, so when you send them a link, it's all customized.

Molly: They select the time, and with Calendly, They have other tools where you can send reminders, you can ask them questions to fill out ahead of time. Those are on paid plans. 

LaTara: Yeah, I love that. 

Molly: so I use this program called HoneyBooks, and I definitely didn't use it when I first started out, but after about a couple months, I moved into it because it just has everything that I need.

LaTara: So it has scheduling, it has, contracts, it has how I'm going to collect payments. It has my onboarding. It houses all of my clients. and you can connect it to your Google account or Your [00:14:00] Calendly account can.

LaTara: integrate with HoneyBooks, which is really great. And then it also can integrate with your Zoom. So then when they book a call your calendar is already set up and organized. And so is the Zoom link. So they have everything all taken care of, which is really great. And I love how. easy the process is.

LaTara: And HoneyBooks is really inexpensive. I think it's like 20 a month maybe. And I'll talk more about that in a minute. And then Mol and when we talk about payments and Molly, we'll talk about what she uses as well.

Marker - discovery call

LaTara: But let's focus on the discovery call. So we get that call booked, right? And Hopefully at this point they already know what you're going to charge. The biggest mistake I made when I first started out is booking these calls without the clients actually knowing what I was going to charge. So then we had this awesome discovery call, it went really great, we talked about what we were going to be doing, and then I would send them over a proposal, and they would be like, oh my god, this is so much more than what I was expecting.

Molly: Right. [00:15:00] 

LaTara: I can't afford this. That's not part of my budget. I want to talk about a couple of those things. So, before someone can book a call with me, they actually have to review my service guide. And my service guide is something that you can make for free. as well in Canva. And when you're just starting out, this is going to be that mock portfolio that Molly and I talked about in the first episode.

LaTara: So your mock portfolio is going to show your skills, but it's also going to include your 

Molly: services. 

LaTara: And at the end of that portfolio that they're going to be looking through, which again, you can make for free inside of Canva, or you can make it. In Honeybooks is a booking link to book that call with you, right?

LaTara: So it's like everything is right there. So they've seen your work. They have an idea of what you can do. They now know your different packages you offer. The price is on it. So they have the price and then they're going to book that call with you and [00:16:00] therefore no one's going to have sticker shock like oh my god what and so that's something that you need to be looking out for.

LaTara: So when you're on that discovery call, you're going to ask them, you're going to say, so you've seen my services, you've seen what I charge. What is your current budget per month? For example, social media services, right? You want to know what their budget is because that's going to tell you if This 

Molly: is going to work out.

Molly: I love that. I love that. And I've definitely started doing that in the last, two years or so 

Molly: that's a practice that I implement into all my discovery calls now, is having that conversation right out of the gate. What is their budget? What is their budget?

Molly: Because I know personally for me, I would get in discovery calls when I first started. And we would just jump into what they needed. And we wouldn't talk hours, we [00:17:00] wouldn't talk budget, we didn't talk money at all. We just talked about what they needed. And at the end of the call, I would say, Okay, this is my rate.

Molly: And sometimes people liked it, and sometimes after all of that communication we had, we'd get to the end and they're like, Oh, I can't afford that. Which is okay. But now, just getting it out of the way, obviously you do want to hear what they're looking for, because that's super important to even see if it's something that resonates with you, if it's something you offer, if it's something you know how to do, if it's something that they're willing to train you on those are definitely important things, but their budget, I think, is one of the top things.

Molly: that way, you and the client can formulate a plan together.

LaTara: Yes, absolutely. What Molly is saying is so incredibly important. And I would do the same thing. I wouldn't ask, and we just get so excited about What we were going to cover and what we were going to work on together and,[00:18:00] Oh, me over promising.

LaTara: That's another thing. You don't want to get too excited and like over promise. That's a red flag actually as a freelancer when you're over promising. That's like, oh, I need to take a step back because I'm going to over promise and then I'm going to screw myself in the end. So definitely under promise, over deliver.

Molly: Yes. Yes. Always. We've all done it. Yeah. It's 

LaTara: all. Yeah. So anyway, so they already know what I charge. So if they book a call with me, that means that they've seen my prices. Now, my prices and what I have on my guide, might not necessarily cover what their needs are in that moment. So we'll discuss that on the call, but they at least have an idea 

LaTara: So then I'm not going to say. Okay, this is gonna cost 1, 500 for 30 days. They're not gonna be like, What are you talking about? They're gonna be like, Okay, like, So this is actually what I need. Is there any wiggle room or whatever? And when I say that, you are the [00:19:00] freelancer. You make the rules.

LaTara: And some people are totally against wiggle room and they're like absolutely not. this is what I charge every single time. I keep things square and by the books. And I recommend doing that for a really long time. I recommend staying super strict and stern on your prices once you are where you want to be.

LaTara: So you can start creating, like, Profits. Well, and then when you get to a point where you're like, want to take on this small project that definitely wouldn't be my normal retainer or my normal project price. And that's where you can get in those extra, little 500 projects here and there or whatever, but don't market it that way.

LaTara: Market it as I have these two offers. This is what it's going to cost kind of thing. Right. 

Molly: Yeah. Right. 

LaTara: Yeah. So a red flag when you're on that discovery call is you're like, 

LaTara: okay, great, When could we start working together? And if they say yesterday, that's when you're like, okay, let's take a step back. You literally just asked me to start working with them yesterday. They need me. That means they need me [00:20:00] right now. So that means that they're in, emergency mode, right?

LaTara: And you do not want to come into a project in an emergency. Now, when you're first starting out, probably you're gonna have a few of those clients because you're literally just trying to get your name out there and you're trying to get testimonials and more work to 

Molly: put into your portfolio so you can start 

LaTara: building, a more accurate representation of who you are.

Marker - this is where i stopped editing on 9/12

LaTara: And if that's the case and you do have to take on a client like that, one, I don't recommend it, but two, it definitely happens in the beginning. Don't let that person run your life. Exactly. And don't let that person take over your growth and your business. Exactly. And, Molly and I, we've been there.

LaTara: So, the way Molly and I started working together is all surrounded around red flag clients, I had someone that reached out to me. she posted a job offer. I thought, wow, this is cool. I'm [00:21:00] looking for a client. I just happened to come across it. I applied. And then she called me.

LaTara: And that's one thing that I don't let, allow to happen anymore. I don't let clients call me. They do not know my phone number. We only meet at designated times and on places that I select. But she called me, and that's just how she runs her business. So to her, it didn't seem like a big deal, and I didn't realize at first that it was until I later on learned.

LaTara: So a red flag is when a client says, Let's have a phone call. That is a red flag, because you do not want that person knowing your phone number, because they will text you. At all times of the night, and that's not okay. So never use a phone call. Always schedule 

Molly: a Zoom. Yes. Zoom or Google Meet. Zoom. Right.

Molly: The phone. Right. No over the 

LaTara: phone. None of that. No FaceTime. No texting. No, Voxer! Okay, none of that. So, [00:22:00] this person got on a call. I was talking to her. I was super excited. I told her what my prices were. At that time she agreed to pay what my retainer fee was.

LaTara: Which was great because This is what I'm going to be paid. This is how I like to run my business. 

LaTara: VA.

LaTara: And I should have known that was a red flag. She had a VA that she couldn't communicate with at the moment. The VA was going through some stuff that the person didn't know about. And therefore she just was on She was ditching her VA. Yeah. Don't you think, Molly? 

Molly: Yeah, that's Ditching 

LaTara: her VA and moving on to the next one.

LaTara: That should have been... A massive red flag. So now, when I'm in discovery calls, I say, Have you ever worked with a freelancer, or a VA, or have you ever had an OBM before? And if they say, yes, I [00:23:00] say, okay, well, what, how long did you work together and are you no longer working together? Is that why you're looking to hire out this project?

LaTara: And usually now it's the fact that they have a team because I've now established and they have a team and they're adding me on to a project. So that's fine by me because I'm not going to be taking over their VA's jaw. When before, in the beginning, that's literally what they were hiring me for without telling.

LaTara: They were hiring me to take over their VA's job. And that's not cool. That's not cool at all. but the way that they voice it, they're not telling you that. So the, so it's a good way to weed them out from the very beginning. If they say yeah, me and my VA ended on bad terms, or I can't communicate with my VA anymore.

LaTara: Just 

Molly: don't take the job. Yeah, absolutely. [00:24:00] Absolutely. Don't take it. Everything you mentioned is just, it's so important and I think the biggest one, the biggest red flag that I've personally come across, or one of the biggest, there's a few is the communication aspect. Right. And as you mentioned, I need you to start yesterday.

Molly: No. No. If you want to take on that kind of client, and you have the time, and you have the patience, that's one thing. But, that's a big red flag to me now. And, I have definitely had clients in the beginning call me, that was a red flag, especially if it's not scheduled, they're just catching you off guard.

Molly: I had a client one time, I'm in the grocery store, just doing my shopping, didn't know the phone number answered it, and this lady just started talking and was talking about her business. I'm like whoa, hold back up. You do it on your terms. 

Molly: And 

Molly: I've had clients text me because we're on different time zones. I've had clients [00:25:00] text me at 11, 12. I had another client text me at 6 o'clock in the morning. We hadn't even started working together. They just started sending me stuff. And I think the main point that I want to take from what you said, Latara, is this discovery call is on your terms.

Molly: Yes. This is who's interviewing them. Yeah, especially if you've come from a traditional job setting previously, an interview is all about you. You ask about the business, obviously, and the things, and hopefully you've already researched that business. But most of the time, an interview is interviewing you.

Molly: And in a discovery call, it's more so you interviewing them to see if they're a great fit for you. If they align with your values, if it's a business that you resonate with. I personally only take on clients that I resonate with. 

Molly: And also, I don't know about you, Latara, but in my discovery calls, I always go [00:26:00] over what my availability is, because I think that's a super important one as well, to get out in the open right up front.

Molly: What your hours of operation are normally, when do you normally work, when do you not work? Like, for me, I get up super early in the morning. I start working at a ridiculous hour. Because that's just what works for my MS brain. So I'm done at like 2. 30 or 3. I don't work weekends unless a client has an event coming up and they need help and it's something they've already asked me.

Molly: But I set all of that in my discovery call as well. 

LaTara: So I, it's interesting that you do that. So I actually do that in the contract. Ewww. So I don't talk about my hours in the discovery call because... That's indicating that I've already chosen that I wanted to start working with him and we haven't agreed to like [00:27:00] any terms yet.

LaTara: So I include my working hours and how we will communicate in our signed service agreement. 

Molly: And I do it there too. Yeah. And let me, yeah, so let me rephrase it. I don't do an every single discovery call. I don't like start the call, What's your budget? I don't work on the weekends. Right, right, right.

Molly: But if it especially, 'cause a lot of a lot of mine have been referrals from past clients. Or whatever, so they already know a little bit how I know about them. Right. So in those instances, they're like, oh, I already know you. You could do X, Y, and z. And I don't start off with it, but if they're like, yes.

Molly: I do want to work with you once I'm at the end of the discovery call, if they've said they want to work with me, I still follow up with that rig agreement. But I say at the end of the call verbally, because I guess I have PTSD, yeah, right. I'm having like my [00:28:00] slack going off and off.

Molly: I just mentioned it at the end. I just mentioned it because. In my experience, especially if somebody is a referral, and again, this isn't for everybody but they just start sending me stuff right away. Right. And so I always try to just lay it out there before, I do a double layer, a verbal.

LaTara: Yeah, that's a good idea. That's, that's such a good point. So it totally makes sense why Molly does it then, right? Because she does, she has grown her business from referrals, like 95% of it because of referrals. And So say, her first client, right? That's when Molly wasn't following any of these things that we're now telling you, right?

LaTara: Right. And so that first client had acquired bad habits with Molly, right? And then that passes on. And most clients, that refer you, they're friends and they're similar. They run similar businesses. They're similar in, where they are in their success [00:29:00] and how much money they make. And so they tend to be like, Oh yeah, she's great.

LaTara: I just send her stuff on the weekends and she texts me back right away, totally work with her. Right. And so Molly has now learned that the reason why she's saying these things is because she's now figured out that they're all the same and she wants to set the, standards right from the beginning while she's trying to get herself out of this red 

Molly: flag circle.

Molly: Right. So if it's somebody I don't know, or they don't know me, and they're not in a referral, I don't usually just put that right off the bat. But as Latara says, if I've started bad habits with one, and then they're like, Molly will answer it. She'll answer at 9 p. m. 

LaTara: and she'll answer at 6 a. m. and all 

Molly: Saturday.

Molly: Yeah, right. I'll be like, no, let me just tell you what I'm not 

LaTara: doing anymore. Right, exactly. and again, these are all the red flags, but they're [00:30:00] also red flags for you too. So, you want to set boundaries for yourself, and then stick to them.

LaTara: and we're going to talk more about this when we talk about the onboarding process because this is where it's really important, but it's like you've got to set boundaries and you've got to be consistent, so when they do refer you to some, one of their friends, they already have a standard they're working off 

Molly: from.

LaTara: Exactly. Okay, so let's recap real quick. So, we've talked about, red flags to look for before we even get that call booked. We talked about a couple ways that you could get that discovery call booked. We talked about where you should have it, how you should have it. how long it should be.

LaTara: I don't think you need to record the discovery call. That's totally up to you if you want to. I don't record the discovery calls, but I do record the onboarding call, and we'll talk about why that's important later. And then we talked about red flags to pay attention to on that call. And the key ones are...

LaTara: Have they worked with a VA before? What type of project and what type of emergency are they currently in? And then another [00:31:00] thing that I have started asking that you probably won't feel comfortable asking in the very beginning because you're so new and You'll probably say to yourself, Oh, I don't have the right to ask this question, because who am I?

LaTara: I'm just starting out. But I recommend doing it as soon as possible. And it's actually asking them what their conversion 

Molly: rate is. That's a good one. That's a good one. 

LaTara: Yeah, and you can ask this in the discovery call, because this will give you... a super close view into if they really are the right person for you.

LaTara: If they have no idea what their conversion rates are, then that means that they don't pay attention to their business, which then means you're going to have a lot of questions. with probably few answers and clarifications to what you need. And you probably will be wasting a lot of your time [00:32:00] because you're going to be doing things for them that they're going to change their minds on.

LaTara: Because if they don't have a consistent conversion rate, that means that they're not consistent in their business. Therefore, they're always changing what they're doing. And yeah, of course, like someone could be brand new to their business, right? Just like you. So they're going to be like, well, I literally just started my business, but I know hiring out is the first step to take into having a successful business.

LaTara: Right? So of course there's. Circumstances, but the majority of the time, someone that's hiring has been in the business for a couple years. 'cause that's usually when people start hiring 'cause that's when they can afford it. So you wanna ask conversion rates. You wanna ask how long they've been in their business.

LaTara: And then the final thing is you wanna ask them who their ideal client or their ideal audiences and what problems their audience face. And if they don't know the answer to that, Then they're not going to have a clear idea on what it is they need you to do. [00:33:00] 

Molly: Yes, and I love what you said about the conversion rates because I've definitely That's something I started including in my discovery calls, too And I think it's so important because if they weren't converting For the last three years, and then you just start, and they expect you to just get their numbers all the way up.

Molly: That might not be possible right away, based off many factors. Whether they have a super saturated list, whether they don't have a big list, whether they haven't been posting on social media. There's a lot of different factors that go into that, but that is something that is super important to know ahead of time.

Molly: So you have an idea of what you're getting into, where the business is currently, and If what they're asking is reasonable in whatever time frame they're giving you. I think that's a huge one [00:34:00] to be asking. 

LaTara: Yeah, absolutely. And it's okay to ask these questions because remember...

LaTara: You're the one interviewing them, they already booked the call. They already think they want to work with you. So, you need to be asking these super important questions. and when you first start out, you're not going to be able to ask all of 

Molly: these questions. 

LaTara: No. You're not going to be able to.

LaTara: So start small. Start small, and say if you're going for social media, be like, okay, well, What's your following? You are, you're going to ask them that, but you should have already, you should already know the answer because you should have already looked at their social media before you committed to this call in the first place, but still ask them to see what they say.

LaTara: And because you want to know,what's your plan with them? Are you there to just give them back time by making their social media? Or do they actually want you to help them grow their 

Molly: social media, right? 

LaTara: Yeah, so you need to have that super clear. And something that I make very clear in my [00:35:00] calls that I didn't at first is, I am not responsible and you as a freelancer are never responsible.

LaTara: Of the income that your client does or doesn't make. It is not your job. You are not responsible. You are not their CEO or CFO. Therefore you are not in charge of making them money. So when they say to you, I need to make money so I can pay you. That is a red flag. Yes, it's not yort. We have a winner.

LaTara: Some 

Molly: money? 

LaTara: Ha. Okay, so we've talked a lot about red flags. I think we definitely have covered a lot, but before we go, Molly, is there one to just make them feel Okay, you just threw so much out at me. I feel like I'm not even gonna get anywhere. I'm super overwhelmed now.

LaTara: You keep telling me to be a freelancer. But you keep freaking me out. So, can you share a story [00:36:00] or a time where, you had a red flag happen to you, and what happened, and then what you were able to learn from it, so now you can avoid those things and be happier in your business.

LaTara: 

Molly: So, when I first started, so my tagline is helping you feel less stressed. Well, when I first started, I was stressed as fuck. I wasn't even helping myself. Right. I myself be less stressed. I was so stressed because I was a yes man. And I think I mentioned this, I can't remember if it was episode one or episode two, but a big one for me is communication.

Molly: And I've had great discovery calls, and we've gotten to a certain part of the discovery call, and the person did say, oh, I'm not able to afford that, or. Oh, I'm looking for this or whatever the case is and instead of me just saying yes, I can do whatever you're asking and me, maybe [00:37:00] not know what they're talking about, or it goes against my values as a business or my values as a person.

Molly: Right. I've always been scared of confrontation. I've always been somebody who hates confrontation. And starting out can be really scary.

Molly: And so, I had a client that I had really horrible boundaries with. There was no boundaries at all.

Molly: As Latara said, when I took on another client that was referred from them they followed those same boundaries, and then they, were not boundaries. 

LaTara: it would be a trickling effect of bad habits. Feeling stressed, feeling tense, and over promising. Now, I always go into my discovery calls.

Molly: Reminding myself that this is my business. This is my core values This is what I want to happen in my business. This is what i'm looking for in a client And [00:38:00] don't be afraid to tell somebody. No. Don't be afraid to tell somebody it's not gonna work out. 'cause I know when I first started I was terrified to tell people.

Molly: Say no, actually I charge $15 more than what you're offering . Like, that's obviously a bad example. 'cause I was, when I first started, was a b a covid and I just really needed money, but , . Right. But just. Telling people know, because once I started implementing that in my business, and this goes beyond discovery calls, this goes just for a freelancer in general, when I started being open, honest, and to the point I feel like my message and my relationship with that potential client, with that current client It just got so much better and healthier, and I definitely have been on discovery calls, as I said, where I just said [00:39:00] yes, but recently I've been on discovery calls, and I've said no, and sometimes the clients don't work out, and we still leave, cordial.

Molly: But, I just think the biggest thing is not saying yes to everything and feeling confident in saying no. Whether it's your pre interview, whether it's your discovery call, whether it's your onboarding or your current client, if it's something that doesn't resonate, it's okay 

LaTara: to say no.

LaTara: It really is. I used to never say no. I said yes to everything. I was super excited. I was like, I need the money. I'm just gonna take every single client I can get my hands on and just grow.

LaTara: And I worked super hard in the first year of my business. I worked non stop. At one point, I had 20 clients, which is sickening to look back on. Oh my god. 20 clients, right? That's insanity. I literally never stopped working. And it's because I didn't say no. And so now, with the clients that I work with, I have obviously scaled way down.

LaTara: But I've raised my prices, so it hasn't [00:40:00] really affected me in that way, so it's been a good balance, 

LaTara: Like, someone asked me to do something a few weeks ago, a client that I'm currently off boarding, and they asked me to do something, and I said, straight up said to them, there's no way I will be able to do all of that for you along with these other things that you've asked of me in this same amount of time.

LaTara: Right. And then I had another client, since, as you all have now figured out by now, I do not offer social media services anymore. And so when they asked me, I really need help with my social media. Is there any way that you could do this? And I say, no. I do not offer social media services, however, these are my recommendations on who I think would fit you really well with your social media.

LaTara: Would you like me to see if they're currently hiring or have the capacity to take on another client? And usually they're like, oh yeah, that would be great. Please. Thank you. I would love the, recommendation. So I've started doing that because it's just not worth it. But anyways, let's end on a good note.

LaTara: Let's wrap [00:41:00] this up, okay? So... Red flags is a really big topic, it's a big deal, and, we really want you to feel encouraged to be a freelancer, we want to empower you, we want to show you that you really do have the power to make the rules and stick to them, but we also want to be extremely honest with you, because we've gone through it, and we want to 

LaTara: give you these examples so you can hopefully not go down the path that we did.

LaTara: Because we want you to love your job because being a freelancer truly is like the best thing you could ever do for yourself. Making money doing something you love doing while being home. Exactly. While being home and making the rules. So we're going to end there. We talked about a lot. We're going to pick up next week.

LaTara: We're going to talk about, is you've finished that discovery call. There's no red flags in the way you're loving it. Everything looks great, right? Everything sounds good. Now, you need to send them that invoice, should you have a contract, shouldn't you have a contract, how do you [00:42:00] invoice them, and then why an onboarding call is so incredibly important and what are the things that you want to go over on those onboarding calls and why you should plan a whole hour for them.

LaTara: So that's what we're going to talk about in the next episode. We really hope to see you there and yeah, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks, everyone.